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Closing Bell

News/Business. Maria Bartiromo, Bill Griffeth. A guide through the most important hour of the Wall Street trading day. New. (CC) (Stereo)

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01:01:00

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San Francisco, CA, USA

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Channel v58

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mpeg2video

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ac3

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480

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Carl Icahn 14, U.s. 7, Us 6, S&p 6, Tesla 5, Oakland 5, Bitcoin 4, Washington 4, California 4, Gm 4, Phil Lebeau 4, Reuters 4, America 3, New York 3, China 3, Europe 2, Joe 2, Purrrfect 2, San Francisco 2, Alwaleed 2,
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  CNBC    Closing Bell    News/Business. Maria Bartiromo, Bill Griffeth. A guide  
   through the most important hour of the Wall Street trading day....  

    November 18, 2013
    3:00 - 4:01pm EST  

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we're like redford on that boat. we're going together, you, me and the ocean. >> i'll be mixing the drinks. >> and your daughter, clearly. >> i don't like mai tais. thanks for watching "street signs". >> "closing bell" is up next. >> sounds good. hi, everybody, we're into the final stretch. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo at the new york stock exchange. history was made today once again when the dow crossed the 16,000 mark for the first time ever. >> we're not there now, though. it has pulled back a little bit. the question will be for the next hour, can it close above 16,000 for the first time in history. in fact, that's not the only round number we're keeping an eye on. the s&p this morning crossed 1800 for the first time. >> unbelievable. >> and the nasdaq, while pulling back today, is ever closer to that 4,000 level. something we haven't seen since march of 2000. >> this market will not quit.
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>> the round number watch continues. >> i love it. coming up later on "closing bell," a big news maker, prince alwaleed bin talal al saud. he's been asking saudi arabia to diversify because of the natural gas explosion and fracing in america. we'll talk about how he's allocating capital. which includes big stakes in citi, news corp. and twitter. don't miss that. >> we hear he made $600 million on the twitter investment, on the ipo there. >> unbelievable. more fallout from the new health care law. a new poll of midsized american businesses shows there's a trend to move workers to part-time status due to the mandates of the law. this is something the white house has been pushing back against very hard. but these numbers tell a different and disturbing story. we're going to have more on that. stay tuned for more results. >> bill, a lot of people pushed back on this whole idea.
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i reported this first on "meet the press" and got killed on twitter for it because people disagreed with it. now we have these results. want to see what corporates are doing as a result of this health care legislation. the dow jones industrial average up 28 points off the highs, as you heard from bill. we hit the highs at about 2 p.m., 2:15 p.m. eastern time. and have come off of that pretty substantially and steadily. now at 15,989 on the blue chip average. nasdaq looks like this, negativity. technology stocks rolling over. momentum names giving it up. particularly in the last half hour we've seen the nasdaq ex l accelerate the losses. down 22 points. standard & poor's 500 index pulling back from all-time high reached friday. down to 1794. >> we're looking for bob pisani to figure out what's going on with the late selloff. in our "closing bell
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exchange", joseph, thomas karsten, and our own rick santelli. good to see you guys. welcome. joe, i know you're skeptical of this market. we keep hitting singles every day, so that the market sets new records incrementally here. what do you make of what's going on here? >> i think markets directionally continue to move higher. again, this momentum we've seen in the markets so far this year, it's probably unsustainable. at least in the u.s., that is, heading into next year. >> because? >> well, i think, look, you have valuations which are still not expensive but clearly not as attractive as they once were. i think if you look around the world, european markets, for example, i think you'll probably see a little more upside. >> let's talk about the upside. when you look absolutely at valuations right here, thomas, you weigh in here, do you think valuations look fully valued at this point? do you think this market is expensive or would you put new money to work here going into year end? >> sure. i think you need to be
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selective. we are taking cash and reallocating to specific positions, specifically in technology and energy sector. we're doing it with specific positions. you mentioned the momentum stocks are contributing to the losses today. we're looking at value, companies like cisco where you get a great pe, good income and we think have great long-term value. in the energy sector we have a cost basis in bp below $42 a share. we've seen some recent nice upside gain, but we think there's long-term value there as well. >> we also welcome another voice to the panel. an old friend, john rutledge. >> hi. >> how are you? >> i'm good. how are you? >> we were just talking about this continued incremental gain in the market to new highs. it's become a regular thing. you don't think the rally this year has been a fluke. why not? >> it's the wall of money. the fed printed $2.5 trillion of reserves that have not turned
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into bank loans but the banks are doing it, as can you see from rising leveraged finance credits. i think as that happens, loans create deposits. deposit, spending. spending makes more gdp, inflation, and ultimately higher rates. i don't like interest rate stocks but i love leveraged finance right now. >> rick santelli, jump in here. what are you seeing as we see money into into equities once again? >> i don't think it's any surprise. unintended consequences, i think, will be the title of more books written between, you know, where we're at today and over the next three years and whether it covers the ferl federal reserve, low interest rates, quantitative easing, obama care, the affordable care act, unintended consequences. i think stocks crossing the threshold of 16,000, some of the unemployment issues that push rates down that aren't necessarily about a positive economy. the unintended consequences if you want to know what's in health care, have you to pass it. all this is coming back to bite
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us. now, all of it isn't negative. obviously, the dow and the s&p and nasdaq are helping many people that eventually may need the money to retire. but it's also disenfranchising many who need to save that don't want a more risky investment. and when it comes to obama care, you psd, you know, they keep pushing back. you were right on "meet the press." and you shouldn't let them push back. the truth is the truth, maria. truth to power. >> thank you, rick. >> joe, i mean, the way the markets work, they anticipate something down the road. and history would suggest that the record highs we've seen this year is the market anticipating a better economy down the road. you don't think that's what's happening right now? >> i do think that's what's happening. if you look over the past year, it's been the uncertainty of the tax and over the past few months we've gotten more clarity. first it was who would take over for berp nan i can. then the pace of economic growth. and europe and japan. as we continue to get a little
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more clarity and the pace of economic growth stabilizes, i think that allows risk assets to move higher. >> i would agree, if i can jump in. i agree with a lot of things rick said. i think rick's right. as long as we've got low interest rates, it's likely the fed within the next three to six months curtails bond purchases. we think interest rates will stay low throughout 2014. as long as you have low interest rates, the party is on for stocks. you know, i think rick would agree, every party comes to an end. so, while we're looking for value in the market, investors need to be cautious here to be selective about what money they're putting to work. >> what do you do then? what groups do you want to be exposed in as we head into year-end where people are expecting another melt-up? >> i think you need to be selective and look for value in the companies you're putting that money to work for in the equity sector. but a lot of our clients who are close to retirement or in retirement, they still need income. we're setting the stage for what will be a very dramatic rise in
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interest rates over the coming years. so, we're trying to reallocate some of that money in bonds to investments as well. we think it adds diversification rather than just piling into stocks. >> john rutledge, the question on everyone's mind is how this party will end. will it be a 2 a.m. ending where everyone leaves arm in arm with stars in their eyes or a rush to the exits when an alarm goes off? what do you think will happen? >> is it will end with inflation and rising interest rates, which is why i'm fully invested in real estate and private equity are the two top categories. utilities, interest sensitive are the bottoms. small caps are doing well because banks are making money available again. >> we've got to go, guys. thank you very much. >> thanks, everybody. >> carl icahn is tweeting. >> says he does not want to
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fight with apple but says he has no plans for walking away either. hes he's very cautious on equities and says the market could easily have a big drop, according to a report on reuters. >> he's at a reuters summit. >> this could account for the decline in the market. the technology stocks. he was specifically specifically about apple in one case, of which he is a big shareholder. that may be one reason we're seeing this late selloff in the stock market with the dow down -- or the s&p, excuse me, the nasdaq down about 25 points right now. >> apple also, pressure. >> meantime, jpmorgan has inked another costly settlement. this time with sophisticated investors who bought bad mortgage securities from the company during the crisis. as other banks have found, it might not yet be a done deal. kayla has that story. >> there are many parties that want their money back after buying these bad loans. and jpmorgan reaching a deal with 22 of these investors who
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bought into hundreds of bad bear stearns mortgages which have a projected loss value of $70 billion. friday's deal, takes them to $4.5 billion payout. bernstein analysts see the move as a positive move for a bank still facing a multimillion dollar legal fight from washington. a similar deal bank of america struck that's now under fire. b of a reached $8.5 billion deal with same exact investors in 2011 but some bondholders said bank of new york-mellon let them down. a new york judge will decide after closing arguments are heard this week. now, banks are always relieved to solve these issues. citigroup among the banks that have yet to settle with this group of investors as it's been expected to.
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as we know well from covering these situations, it's not a done deal until all the investors say so. maria and bill, back to you. >> we'll be discussing the outlook for major stocks later on "closing bell" when i speak with prince alwaleed bin talal al saud, who will be here at the new york stock exchange live in the next hour. bill, we have headlines from carl icahn. he basically says, many companies' earnings are a mirage. he says, earnings may be fueled more by low interest rates than strong management. he is talking about the potential of a very big drop in stocks. he says, i'm very cautious on equities. the market could easily have a big drop. he's saying this at the reuters summit. >> what's happening right now? >> that's what we're seeing in stocks. >> we're having a drop. all averages have come off their highs. the dow well back below 16,000. it was up there -- what did he say? >> art cashin said $200 million
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for sale. >> that may change. that may change before the close. >> we're rolling over big. >> nasdaq down 30 points. about 0.75% decline at 3954. we're guessing as a result of the comments from carl icahn. dow off the highs. 16 sth 16,000 from the dow is off the table. bitcoins, a hearing in washington, which may be why they're soaring. tesla's model s is the top selling automobile costing more than $75,000. now long-time status symbol cadillac is looking to cash in on tesla's success, launching its own electric car. we'll get an up close look with phil lebeau coming up later on the "closing bell." opportunities aren't always obvious. sometimes they just drop in.
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welcome back. check out these markets. the dow jones industrial average struggling to stay above the -- well, 16,000 level, but certainly above 15,9 62. losing altitude quickly. we told you a headline from carl
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icahn who says basically he's expectinging a pretty good selloff in stocks. he says some earnings are a mirage and more to do with low interest rates than leadership and market demand. as soon as that headline came across the tape, the market gave up all the gains and then some. we're in negative territory and technology is rolling over the most. he says he's not walking away from a fight with apple which may very well be pressuring apple shares as well, bringing the nasdaq down. lawmakers in washington may be the reason why. mary thompson on capitol hill where congress is holding a hearing to find ut more about this controversial currency. do they always some say just having this hearing has given the bitcoin legitimacy, sending prices even higher? >> they certainly realize that, maria. there's a lot of excitement and concern surrounding digital currency, so the hearing today is basically a way to look at how government might regulate the digital currencies without
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stifling the process they hold. including speedier, cheaper money transactions between consumers and merchants. and billions of people who may not have access to either cash or banks. now, stored in online wallets, digital currencies are generated by computers that solve complex problems. their value is set by the supply and demand on the many internet exchanges where bitcoins and other digital currencies trade. unlike u.s. dollars, they're not backed by a government or commodity, like gold. the downside, that's many. treasury officials testifying today say bitcoin and digital currency have basically become the favorite form of money by criminals because of the anonymity they provide, allowing them to commit money laundering, tax evasion or buy and sell illegal goods. also, given that it's a direct transfer between two parties without an intermediary like a bank or credit card company, that means it's very difficult for law enforcement officials to
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detect fraud. lawmakers don't want to squash any innovation with these digital curran sis. they see them, again, as a new way of looking at possibly a payment system but they also need to make sure that consumers and investors are protected and that is the problem that they are solving for today. back to you. >> thank you so much. since it crept into the financial lexicon, the bitcoin has been involved with speculators, drug busts, video game scam but the concept remains a darling. >> let's talk about both sides of this issue. tony, ceo of bitpay, a company that facilitates merchants being able to accept bitcoins in their transactions. he'll be testifying tomorrow on behalf of bitcoin. he joins us now. along with long-time currency expert from merck who has concerns about merck as a viable
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currency. tony, you're an advocate of bitcoin. why isn't this simply something that's been created out of thin air. >> it's exciting. we've been wearing our party hat for days and days. it's trading like an early stage tech stock. if you could trade minute by minute what the valuation of facebook or twitter could be in the early stages, it would mimic what we're seeing with bitcoin today. >> axle, what do you think? you don't think the bitcoin passes the test for money. why? >> it doesn't pass the test for money because in 400 years you would like to have something you would chose gold over bitcoins. it's shaking up the banking system. i think technology is promising. think about, for example, if airlines were using bitcoin to exchange miles. that's where i see the value of bitcoin. putting up a price tag on something that just has a random value every day, i think, is
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very, very difficult. >> one of the knocks is lack of regulation. it has been already used for some scams out there, taking advantage of people who are unaware of how all of this works. you got a pr problem in that regard, don't you? >> you have to think back 20 years to the early days of the internet. in the early days of the internet there were scams and people using it for bad things. quickly, the grownups entered and built real servers for consumers and the bad guys went to jail or went away. any time you have a new technology, it's going to explore its potential for both good use and bad use. and companies like ours are clearly at the forefront trying to make sure we do business only with the good actors. >> obviously, the argument you're making is that you're equating this with early technology, pioneering technologies people don't understand to begin with. the difference between some of these early technology companies, there was a business model. maybe they weren't always profitable but at least there was a business model. they were making money.
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where is the store of value when it comes to a bitcoin, other than the fact that the buyer and seller have agreed on a value for that bitcoin? >> yeah. bitcoin does get price discovery in an open market. buyers and sellers auction the price up and down based on supply and demand. businesses like ours that provide services around bitcoin is where the profit lies. when you look at bitcoin itself, it functions as an etf on the whole space. can you choose the individual companies but clearly bitcoin itself is an etf possibly on the whole space. >> you want to jump in? then i have a question about anonymity. go ahead. >> i do get calls from both attorneys and venture capitalists in silicon valley so big moneys are looking at this. i think anti-money laundering will need to be upset. this will upset original founders of bitcoin but it will be ironed out. as far as value of money, i think we need derivatives exchange to reduce the volatility, so forth, more liquidity in the market so the
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price can't be pushed around by a few actors. as far as value is concerned, that's very difficult to assign at this point. >> my question really, axle, for you, is what about the idea of anonymity of using bitcoins, whether it be what you're buying, what you're trading, maybe that's one of the attractions. i have been on the record as being a skeptic here but i was having a discussion with someone oefrt weekend and they brought up this idea of anonymity. for that reason alone would we use more use of it? people want to be anonymous in terms of what they're buying and selling. >> sure. can you do that with a $100 bill, a gold coin. once you get over $10,000, regulators will kick in and they'll find a way to regulate you if bitcoin will remain to be successful. the question is how much of a value fluctuation will you accept? it's like a prepaid debit card that fluctuates in value every day. as long as the price goes up, that's great. for international transfers you'll accept more volatility. of course, the banking system uses technologies that's decades
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old. it's great there's a new way to shake up everybody but very, very early stage. >> quickly, before we go, look at that chart. as i was saying to you during the break -- were asking me what i think of bitcoins. i've seen my share come and go over the years in my career but and read about them in history. when you get that kind of price action, that is not sustainable. it smacks of a -- you know, the tulip mania in holland in the 1600s and the whole market just disappears when people started to flee at the same time. what's to keep this market from just evaporating? >> if you look at that chart and go back to april where the first peak was, looks like the chart on the right. we said, oh, my gosh, in april, this is going to the moon. >> now it is going to the moon. >> six months later we surpassed it. maria brought up a point about the anonymity. bitcoin doesn't work like credit cards and debit cards do. when you're a user of your bank, you expect your bank to keep
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private and not broadcast your activities into the open world. with bitcoin, every transaction is broadcast broadcast out there for public record. that's why it is important for people to have privacy for their individual transactions. >> real quick. hold up the bitcoin. you brought one in. show viewers. you're telling me that one coin is valued right now at $640. >> yes, roughly. this is a physical bitcoin. you know, the metal itself has no value but what is valuable is the private key under the hologram. like a plastic gift card. the value is not the plastic, it's the code under the scratch-off. this is a gift -- >> at $600, i can't take a gift but i appreciate that. >> we'll see you in washington tomorrow. axle, thank you for your thoughts. for a currency on the rise to a city on the decline, looking for escape go scapegoats, oakland, california, is claiming wall street sold
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them complicated financial securities bound to fail. scott cohn is in oakland with details in his "america city" series debuting this weekend. scott? >> reporter: day one of our trip across america to look at u.s. cities in critical condition, we're in oakland, california. one of hundreds of u.s. cities that made bad bets on wall street. wall street was selling these bets to cities back in the '90s. swap contracts that let cities lock in a fixed interest rate. interest rates back then were high and they've gone down yet cities like oakland are paying millions a year to fund swap deals and would take millions more to get out of it. we have a lot more at cnbc.com/cities. tomorrow we'll look at the pension crisis. it's bad everywhere, but particularly bad in chicago, which makes detroit's problems look like a walk in grant park. i'm scott cohn, cnbc business news in oakland, california.
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>> thank you so much. we have news on apple. we know apple stock is down. >> we're just watching it fall here after the comments by carl icahn at the reuters summit, where he was commenting on the market. where he said he felt that t the -- there would be a drop coming in the markets here. we know he's ep a big shareholder of apple. advocating of a much bigger dividend payment to the company, to the tune of $250 billion, something tim cook has resisted to this point. it's been an applicable relationship but apple is falling and taking a toll on the nasdaq, which is down 36 points right now. >> and his quote is, i do not want to fight with apple but i also have no plans for walking away. stock down 1% on apple. >> now he's losing money. >> yes. we're in the final stretch of trading. 30 minutes before the trading bell rings. a market that's rolled over huge on the heels of the carl icahn comments. nine points down. nasdaq hardest hit with decline
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of 40 points. s&p pulling back from friday's high. >> s&p is more than 160% since the bottom of the market in march of 2009. if you go back to march of 2000, it's not up much at all. it was that lost decade we keep talking about. we'll talk about if this market is getting ahead of itself or if there's a lot more room to run coming up. a new electronic cadillac which critics are calling an impressive car spell more trouble for tesla? phil lebeau goes behind the wheel to find out. we'll take a first look at the electric caddy coming up. (vo) you are a business pro.
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there is a battle brewing in the world of sports broadcasting. julia with details on this late-breaking story. >> traditional tv programmers fight with streaming video services, now the national football league and major league baseball are warning the supreme court that if aria wins legal battle, sports fans can say good-bye to free games on broadcast tv. the nfl and mlb filed a friend of the court brief urging the high court to take up the lawsuit. abc, cbs, nbc and fox, saying if
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area yeah was i will loued to keep operating without compensating the broadcasts, sports programming would leave broadcast channels where it's free, and move to kainl cable where they're guaranteed retransmission fee worth $100 million to the league. mlb and nfl saying in the brief, court intervention is now necessary to restore clarity and certainty in this area and to prevent the unraveling of marketplace built upon the licensing of rights rather than the exproceed operation of such rights through tech knowledge cal chicanery. tv nets filed a petition to supreme court urging it to get involved and resolve conflicting conclusions drawn by other courts. we'll see if this does what if takes to get the supreme court to set a date and hear this case. back over to you. >> julia, thank you very much. this could have been an historic day with wall street with the dow trying to close above 16,000 for the first time. doesn't look like that will
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happen now. dominic chu looks at some stocks that have been driving us lately. >> we're a little cool now. let's get a check on the best performer in the dow. boeing leading to the upside. aerospace is higher on the heel of monster orders at dubai air show. boeing got 259 orders close to $100 billion, the biggest combined order in boeing's history. also large cap pharmaceutical company abvi saying experimental hepatitis c drug. 9 0% of patients treated saw no signs. 3-d printing stocks, analysts say bank of america mentioned some positively in a note to clients. we'll finish off with tesla.
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just down huge. about 10% again today. investors continue to push the stock lower. remember, this was one of the high-flying momentum names to the upside. shares down nearly 40% from all-time high of 194.50 back at the end of september. tesla continuing that downward draft. back over to you. >> 40% in a month and a half. that hurts. thank you. meanwhile, looking at tesla, we may be looking over its shoulder, the stock having the tough day, down 12% as dom showed us. today gm's cadillac brand is introducing its first luxury electric car. phil lebeau is looking at whether this new caddy can rival tesla. >> reporter: this is the cadillac er. not all-electric. like a chevy volt, gas-assist, extended range gas car. is it the volt? no, the styling is different. does it feel different in we had a chance to go up the pacific coast highway in the er.
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they've been able to tweak the guts of the chevy volt they put in this car and has a crisper acceleration. 37 miles, all electric. gas assist range, 355 miles. here's what will get a lot of attention. it will start at under $76,000 when it goes on sale in january. and that has people saying, is there a market out there for that right now? yes, tesla is there. when you look at ev sales in united states through september, the volt leads the way. and then the leaf. those are selling down between 25,000 and $40,000 range. then the model s at over $14,000. a lot of people will wonder, will the elr cut into the business of tesla? the model s is the top selling luxury car. not just electric car but luxury car selling for over $75,000. average transaction price for the model s, $93,000. want to show you shares of gm
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over tesla. you heard dominic chu talk about the selloff in tesla. gm is up. gm shares close to hitting their all-time high, which was back early 2011, the ipo happening in 2009 -- 2010. >> we want to see you drive away in that hot looking cadillac. >> yeah. how does it drive? >> reporter: it's a little crisper than the chevy volt. it's definitely a luxury car. no doubt about that. what stands out, you get instant acceleration that happens with all electric cars. i think there's a market there, but, you know, we'll have to see what happens when it goes on sale in january. >> phil lebeau heading up pch in santa monica. there he goes. looks like another lovely day. what a surprise? >> thank you, phil. >> car country. 25 minutes left in the trading session here. still a slight downward bias. the dow has lost 75 points since carl icahn's comments were made
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public 20 minutes ago he could see a drop in the market. >> so, he could move trillions and trillions of dollars in market value with it one comment? >> that's carl icahn. where are the best opportunity in this market as we see the market trade around record highs? we'll ask one of the richest men, prince al saud, we'll talk twitter, oil, iran. make sure to stick around for this one-on-one interview. >> always enjoy his visits. up next, why can't humans just accept when something good is happening? i mean, the markets are at record highs. now we're hearing bubble talk. is that remotely justified? a look at both sides of the that story coming up. and we own the. it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people.
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as know, the dow and s&p have been breathing airzona with all-time highs. even the nasdaq was approaching a range we haven't seen since the internet boom days of 200. seema mody has been monitoring. >> we put together a couple different factors that could derail this market rally. first trigger is fresh economic data due out on wednesday when we get october existing home sales number. fitz weaker than expected, the staying power of the housing
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recovery will be questioned. also this week, inflation ratings on wednesday. consumer price index and retail sales. another potential catalyst, earnings. this week we get a good read on the consumers with home depot, jcpenney, target and gap reporting. throughout the week, commentary could provide a window into holiday expectations. there's still a lot of long-term head winds, including hbc. most valuations are slightly above their ten-year averages. a warning sign prompting some analysts to disagree with the notion that the market will continue to move higher. lastly, europe. while the situation is improving it's still dealing with deflation, tepid growth and fiscal worries in greece, slower than expected recovery could impact the bottom line of some multinationals that do have exposure to the eurozone. >> thank you so much. the dow and the nasdaq aiming to close at milestone levels.
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16,000 for the dow industrials. 4,000 for the nasdaq. dow is looking to have a better shot of hitting that mark at the moment. >> at the moment. but anything can change. in this market, are we in a bubble territory, far from it? what should you do with this given the kind of gains we've seen since the market bottom of march of 2009? go back to early in the year 2000. in fact, if the teleprompter will keep moving i'll make my case. who's running prompter today? the market isn't up at all. we had this lost decade going back to 2000 where the dow hit 10,000, fell and then finally got back to it a decade later. but are we in bubble territory now that we've gone from 10,000 to 16,000 in just a few years? cnbc contributor ron says there's no bubble in sight. >> hello, bill. >> and michael, it says on the prompter when it moves, he
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thinks the good times are coming to an end. >> bill's getting mad. i know, bill, he's getting mad. >> there's two of me now. i'm beside myself. hey, ron, how are you doing? >> i'm fine, thank you. >> we hear from more and more analysts that say there's no place for the market to go up up because of quantitative easing by the fed. that's classic bubble talk, isn't it? >> bill, it would be if this were classic bubble activity. bubbles have very defined characteristics, we've done studies on bubbles, how they develop over time and how they burst. stan breckenridger says two things kill bull markets. higher interest rate and uncertainty preceding a war. we see environment where there are bubble-like circumstances in certain situations. bitcoin, that's one.
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private equity deals are getting too rich, too levered. social networking type stocks taking off. bis bizarre things like fanex that was going to sell arian foster, which got ditched because he got hurt. there are pocket expectations but i wouldn't classify this as a bubble. >> michael, you have have been concerned this is a bubble. what are the alternatives? sometimes bubbles get bigger and bigger. >> that's absolutely right. we talk about what defines a bubble. gaps, disconnects, ends conviction the market has. you have a bubble, i think, in the wealth gap between rich and poor, which is a direct effect of coming from the wealth effect, which only affects the wealthy. you have a bubble in -- where stocks are relative to inflation expectations. this is an incredible glaring disconnect that's happened all year. doubles are not supposed to be
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inflaigs flags/deflation hedge. third bubble in conviction that the fed is going to fix it all. i want to remind everybody we have this belief because there's this insurance policy that affects qe that we cannot go down, excuse me, but we have multiple 20%, 30% moves in the nikkei despite qe in japan. >> i would disagree with that assessment. japan has never done until recently attempted full-scale quantitative easing. it made many policy mistakes from 1990 until today and has further to go on the policy front until we're sure they've attempted to ameliorate the problems they've had. at home, the fed has been aggressive. we'll extend the zero percent interest rate until 2014. qe may not taper away. hard to sell. fed is supporting not only financial assets but the economy. they've recapitalized banks. corporations are in the best fiscal shape since the 1950s.
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the private sector is doing far better than most people would suggest. this is not just built on air. i think that's a wild misconception. >> this is a classic debate. i wish we had more time. carl icahn's comments took the air out of today's bubble. >> he's not a market timer and i don't think people should put weight in what he says. markets can go down any time. we should also ask him if he was short the market. >> i wish i could. >> i understand. >> thank you both. your thoughts on today's market action. heading toward the close -- no hard feelings, teleprompter. you think we make this up? no, we read it all. the dow is up 7 points so we're starting to come back. >> let's take a short break. after the break, one of the wealthiest men in the world, prince alwaleed bin talal al saud will stalk about shifts in balance of oil power to the current state of the middle east. jooifshgs up the check?
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some of the biggest names in technology have gathered at cloud computing conference in san francisco where we find our own josh lipton. josh? >> reporter: yeah, bill, here at dream force, it is billed as the biggest cloud computing party on
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the planet. some 130,000 expected to register. they are here to party, to network and to listen to a who's who of silicon valley superstars. yahoo's marissa mayers, sean penn, rock bands like green day. a clear shot at oracle and its big event in san francisco, open world. the two have been bitter rivals in the past and now partners integrating their inte net-based software. foes becoming friends. this year's investors have clearly sided with salesforce. that stock has surged higher. they are now seen as poster child for the cloud. the street wants to see eps on nine cents on revenue of $1.1 billion which would represent year over year growth of 34%. we'll bring you all the numbers on the "closing bell" in about 20 minutes. bill, back to you. >> josh, thanks very much. by the way, salesforce chairman
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welcome back. about seven minutes left in the trading session here. the dow down 2 1/2 points. erin gibbs, chief equity strategist here. when carl icahn says there could be a big market decline and then the market declines, that speaks to how skiddish the market is, don't you think? >> we're priced for perfection. looking forward into 2014, we actually still see about 12% earnings growth. i think there still is room to grow in the year forward. i wouldn't say we're going down next year. >> when you look at momentum names, teslas of the world, big leadership names that have led this market year to date, is it ready to cash in on those? >> oh, yeah, definitely. any of those, the high flying, internet retail, some of your
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technology, you know, anything that's really froth y trading in hundred times earnings, absolutely, i would say take my money off the table and let's get into companies that are priced a little more reasonably. >> who would that be? >> some of the financials, some of the reits, particularly with the question of tapering coming back in 2014. some of them are trading below ten times, like nine times earnings. we also have a few of the technology names. your beaten up ciscos, microsoft. with so much cash, they're trading around ten times earnings. >> apple? >> apple, too? >> apple, too, absolutely. >> in broadly speaking, the pes on the broad market daisht broad market selling at 15 times? >> 17 times for 2014 earnings. >> what about trailing earnings? >> 15 times. >> erin, thank you so much. >> thanks. we'll come back with the closing countdown and see if we can finish with an all-time high on the dow. but not energy or even my mood.
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we could still finish positive, but we had a guy with us, i think, who agrees with carl icahn. matt, you've been skeptical of this market. >> yes. i don't have as much pull as he does, unfortunately. obviously, his words do mean something. and the market -- you talk bubble, we start talking about froth, talking about investor sentiment being as high as it is, the bull sentiment, money inflows. we've gotten some place end, no doubt about it. high fliers selling off, facebook, tesla, they have been darlings. it may be time for a sectional rotation of money. it might be time to take a break. >> valuations are not -- 15 times, 17 times trailing earnings. very few alternatives in i very low-yielding world. where do i put my money if i want to sell out? >> interesting comments out of china that maybe they'll start seeing more political help for
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investors over there. maybe they take their money out of the u.s. and maybe they put it in china. >> are you telling me to sell the u.s. and buy china, matt? >> we're not doing that. u.s. companies have done well. >> i want to see what the prince is doing. >> prince alwaleed next hour. good to see you. >> the fed is always asked, is this a market bubble? they always have to answer that question. nobody wants to cop to the fact that maybe asset prices have become inflated. >> we don't know it's a market bubble until after it's happened. so we're going with hindsight, all these market tells appeared and we didn't take advantage of them. if you're an investor, you probably want to play more defensive. you see stocks like exxon performed well. that was a defensive stock down on the year and now it's up. >> look at this. now the dow is starting to move higher again. we'll finish in all-time high territory. won't be at 16,000 but a new record. the s&p finishes lower. nasdaq certainly getting
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clobbered today from the comments by carl icahn. matt, thanks very much for joining us. salesforce.com will be out with earnings momentarily. we'll see how those numbers look from out in california. and stay tuned, the prince himself, alwaleed bin talal will be with maria on the second hour of the "closing bell." i'll see you tomorrow. >> and did is 4:00 on wall street. do you know where your money is? hi, everybody, welcome back to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo on the floor of the new york stock exchange. it was tough getting there, but we are closing at another all-time high. the dow industrials tonight hitting 16 sthou. early today for the first time ever but the market sold off after carl icahn warned he's very cautious on this market and then came back a fraction to close at another all-time high. in unchartered territory for the blue chip average. dow industrial at 15,975. the nasdaq rolled over

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